Meta-Gaming, Player Organized Events, and Organized Warfare.

Originally posted by


Sil

@Zyloh-CIG and the Player Relations support team of CIG:

In light of recent events involving infiltration and meta-gaming, player events, and organized warfare, some concerns have been raised in the Star Citizen PVP community surrounding the future of organized combat in Star Citizen. This message is an effort on behalf of a coalition of prominent PVP organizations to gain clarity from CIG – publicly.

Recent support communications from Player Relations at CIG have stated that “”. Also, “Participation in the disruption of a large event” will be deemed excessive griefingcated that these statements “relate to the explicit and pre-meditated targeting of individuals and scheduled events during the alpha phase of Star Citizen.”

These statements have raised concerns and questions amongst everyday PVP’ers in Star Citizen – for the future of organized org v org warfare, unintended impact by these policies on organically discovered target rich environments, and meta-gaming (infiltration, espionage, etc.), as well as the ambiguity of these statements becoming a bludgeon for others in the Star Citizen community to use against those engaging in PVP by claiming “their event was disrupted”.

While concerns are present, the purpose of this post is not to argue the stance CIG has taken, but to obtain public clarity and definitions of some of the verbiage and terms used so that A) players engaging in PVP can ensure they stay on the correct side of the terms of service, and B) to discourage players from brigading and mass reporting using possible misunderstanding of these statements from CIG as a basis.

The last official statement made by CIG on similar matters was fours years ago:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/1/thread/excessive-griefing-stream-sniping

With the dynamic nature of Star Citizen, its players, and the community, that post is due for an update.

We ask that CIG’s Player Relations team provide clarity to the following with an official post:

1. What constitutes an event that is deemed large enough or high profile enough that surprise combat would be deemed “gameplay disruption” or “excess griefing”? If an organization plans to gather together on a
salvage mission marathon and fields 20 players, is it a violation to attack them?

2. What would be the criteria for determining a “Large scale Disruption?” The concern is the subjective nature of this statement. We understand maintaining a certain level of ambiguity to leave room for
interpretation by CIG, but this could be interpreted by players as anything from attacking a group of players or an organization trying to do an event like Jumptown, all the way to a server wide event organized
by players. What is considered dynamic player interactions versus large scale disruption?

3. What is considered “pre-meditated targeting?” In prior communications CIG has stated that infiltration and meta-gaming is allowed gameplay. If an infiltrator provides intelligence that a single person or group
of individuals will be vulnerable to strike and a group acts on that information is this allowed? How would it be determined if an attack or strike is an organic encounter or pre-meditated?

4. “Pre-meditated targeting of individuals and scheduled events” implies that the simple act of planning to attack anyone is a violation, that any and all combat has to be random and organic. Are we allowed to
use infiltration to join a server where an individual or group target is located for the purposes of attacking them? Specifically if the intent is to only do so once?

The above seems contradictory to previous policy stances and effectively makes any organizational warfare a TOS violation. Previously CIG’s stance was that “for the majority of these matters, a PVP solution is preferable.” We simply do not wish to unintentionally run afoul of acceptable gameplay or be subject to punitive actions due to mass reporting because “PvP happened.”

Our goal is to clear up any confusion or misunderstanding in what is and is not acceptable gameplay and player interaction so we can continue to engage with the community in ways that are approved and beneficial to the direction and future of Star Citizen.

We respectfully await your response,

Silchiasruin | @ZZGooch | @hybaa | @Papa_Freedom | @Soulsworn | @Birdwatcher | @Nolat | @vcrplayer | @Elderelic | @Schwang | @vecshan

Pax Mortis | Vanguard | Liberty’s Reapers | Black Fleet | Phantom Fleet/Eidola | Misthios | WHO | PK Inc. | Grim42 | Avenger Squadron | Ramming Department

@Min-Min | @ThunderLake | @ven_man | @krazysig | @Shankerz | @DurganKael |

Howlers | BlightVeil Legion | Blood Moon Bandits | Zenith Armada Project | Eagle River Syndicate | Red Dragon Platoon |

I’ve been following the recent discussions, and I appreciate the concerns raised by our PVP-focused community. I’d like to provide some clarity and address a few of the key points that have been brought up. Before responding to this thread, I took the time to consult both our Player Relations and Development teams to ensure that we were all fully aligned.

We still believe in and encourage PVP solutions to in-game conflict. Our commitment to a player-driven universe remains the same. It’s important to note that we are not eager to police PVP encounters, and in the vast majority of cases, we prefer players to engage in organic PVP without intervention.

Over the four years since I shared our stance here, we’ve only intervened a small number of times (less than I can count on two hands), a figure significantly lower than the countless reports of “excessive griefing” and “stream sniping” we’ve received.

However, there is a line where we will issue warnings, particularly to groups that take it to an extreme, making disruption their primary purpose for playing.

Within CIG, we have a considerable number of staff members who actively prefer piracy and PVP-focused content (myself included, known for my pirate-clad office in our Austin studio). We are committed to maintaining an environment where such gameplay is not only welcomed but embraced. Regular PVP and piracy-leaning activities are not only accepted but encouraged within the parameters of fair play.

We also acknowledge the responsibility on our part to create a universe that self-manages these types of encounters through a robust reputation and law system, alongside a variety of tweaks and additions to appropriately balance risk vs. reward. As you know, today, the game is not equipped for a fair balance of player factions, at least not to the degree we intend… and currently an event weeks in the making can be wiped out with minimal effort.

This has been seen more frequently lately with pad ramming and A2 flybys, commonly followed by videos mocking those impacted – all with very little gameplay repercussions. Again though, we are aware and acknowledge that this will need to be solved by the game itself, which will be the case as our intended systems come online and mature.

It’s also important to understand that our recent warnings were directed at a specific group that we deemed as more radically impacting the intended Alpha experience.

Lastly, I want to clarify that our current stance is also not permanent. Espionage, piracy, and sabotage have their place in our universe, and we anticipate a more balanced and refined system to accommodate this as the game progresses.

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